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Answers
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Thrale - the name
- What is the original spelling of the name Thrale?
The earliest record of any Thrale is thought to be William le Thral and Johanne Thrale in the Bedfordshire Subsidy of 1309. However since at least the year 1600, records show the spelling as Thrale. Derivatives including Thrall, Thralls, Thral, Trayle and Thrawl are thought to have arisen from Thrale emigration.
Source: Historic Sandridge.
FAQ last updated: 1 January 2001.
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- What does the name Thrale mean?
The name Thrale or Thrall is thought to derive from the Old English term 'præl' or the Old Norse term 'præll', meaning 'a villein, serf, bondman'. It is likely to have arisen from the requirement to work three or four days a week for the Lord of the Manor.
Source: The Origins of English Surname. P.H. Reaney. Fifth impression 1979. ISBN 0 7100 0353 6.
FAQ last updated: 31 December 2000.
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- Is there a Coat of Arms and motto for the name Thrale?
Yes. Images, descriptions and history for Thrale and Thrall coat of arms are here.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2002.
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- Are there any traditional Thrale forenames?
Based on the most comprehensive Thrale family tree, the most common Thrale male forename is Ralph and Thomas, closely followed by John and William. Of my 15 direct male ancestors, five were called Thomas, three were Richard two were Robert, with one each of Ralph, Kenneth, Herbert and John. Other common Thrale forenames include, Richard, Alban, Norman and Peter.
Female genealogical records are less readily available. However, common Thrale female forenames during the same period include Elizabeth, Anne, Sarah and Mary.
Source: Thrale family tree.
FAQ last updated: 21 February 2003.
FAQ last updated: 9 February 2002.
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Places
- Where do the Thrale family originate from?
It is believed that all Thrales originate from Thrale's End and around the nearby village of Sandridge both in Hertfordshire, Southern England. Thrales have lived here since at least 1309.
Source: Historic Sandridge.
FAQ last updated: 1 January 2001.
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- Where is Thrale's End and Thrale's End Farm?
Thrale's End is adjacent to Thrale's End Farm (view
map). The nearest village is Kinsbourne Green, north west of the town Harpenden
in Hertfordshire, and about five miles north-west of Sandridge village.
FAQ last updated: 1 January 2001.
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- Do the Thrale family still occupy Thrale's End Farm?
Jeremy Flawn kindly advised that Thrale’s
End farm was inhabited by the Piggots until recently and may now be occupied by
Mr Page.
If you have any further information, please contact me.
FAQ last updated: 10 May 2002.
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- Where is Nomansland, Nomansland Common and Nomansland Farm?
Nomansland, Nomansland Common and Nomansland Farm (view
map) are about one mile north of Sandridge village.
FAQ last updated: 1 January 2001.
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- Do the Thrale family own Nomansland, Nomansland Common or Nomansland Farm?
Legally no. The Thrale family acquired the lease to Sandridgebury from the Monastery in the 14th century, but since the Dissolution of the Monasteries have been unable to prove this ownership as the lease has never been found.
Please contact
me if you have any further information.
FAQ last updated: 22 May 2002.
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- Where was the Anchor Brewery which Henry Thrale once owned?
The Anchor Brewery
no longer exists, but the Anchor
Public House stand on the same site at 34 Park Street, Southwark, London SE1
9DN (view
map). This on the south bank of the river Thames, near London Bridge and Shakepeare's
original Globe Theatre. It is about 250 metres north of Thrale Street.
FAQ last updated: 15 May 2002.
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- Where was Henry and Hester Thrale's house in Streatham Park, London?
Streatham Park
was demolished in 1863. The site of the estate is now covered by rows of houses.
The former boundaries of the estate are perhaps vaguely indicated by Thrale
Road (which runs parallel to one side of the old kitchen garden), Ullathorne
Road, Thirlmere, Rydal and Riggindale Roads, and a part of Mitcham Lane. This
area still bears the name of Streatham Park.
Source: Page 49 "Mrs Thrale of Streatham" by C L Vulliamy. Published 1936.
Credit: Thanks to Dennis Walker for submitting this information.
FAQ last updated: 15 January 2001.
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- Where else did Henry and Hester Thrale have homes?
The two main homes that are mentioned are Brewery House, London,
West Street, Brighton (referred to by the now defunct name
of Brighthelmstone). Additionally they had many other homes and lodgings throughout
their lives. More information >>.
FAQ last updated: 24 June 2002.
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This web site and its author
- Who owns Thrale.com
David Thrale. I live in London in the United Kingdom.
FAQ last updated: 4 January 2001.
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- Is Thrale.com a profit-making site?
No. I haven't made a penny from Thrale.com and I don't intend to - in fact it costs me money. Everything here is free of charge and free of adverts.
FAQ last updated: 9 February 2002.
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- Why am I doing this?
To start off with I wanted to learn about websites and HTML. My plan was to post up a few family pictures, the little information I had on Thrale family history and a few hyperlinks. But you know how it is, things snowballed!
I have really enjoyed learning so much about my family history, and cracking each technical challenge that comes with developing your own web site. I'm delighted with what I have achieved in a short time - and judging by the forum so are you. I still have loads of ideas for improving things. Although I don't get thousands of visitors, the kind comments I do get from visitors spurs me on to do more.
FAQ last updated: 20 November 2001.
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- Can I place a link from my site to to Thrale.com
Yes, provided your site is family friendly. Just send me an email with the details and I'll do the rest.
FAQ last updated: 20 November 2001.
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- How is my privacy protected by Thrale.com?
We do not do anything to compromise our users privacy. We want to encourage - not discourage - vistors. Read our privacy statement.
FAQ last updated: 4 January 2001.
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- From which parts of the world have people people contact Thrale.com from?
Australia: Wyong New South Wales. Canada: Revelstoke BC, Vancouver, Cochrane in Alberta. Brazil: São Paulo. Russia. United Kingdom: Hadleigh in Essex, Stoke-on-Trent, Southampton, Rustington in Sussex, Wembley. United States: Arizona, San Rafael in California, Illinois, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas, Washington State. Uganda.
Thrale.com has also been visited by people from Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Costa Rica, Croatia, Chile, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Hong Kong, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, India, Japan, Kenya, Lesotho, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey and Yugoslavia.
FAQ last updated: 19 January 2003.
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Hester and Henry Thrale
- What did Hester Thrale write?
Hester Thrale’s most well-known
works are her letters to Samuel Johnson and her Anecdotes
about Johnson. She is also known for her ana Thraliana. Many of her works are available
on Thrale.com.
See the full list
here.
FAQ last updated: 13 March 2001
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- Henry and Hester Thrale had some famous friends - who were they?
Mrs. Thrale had a taste for literary guests and literary guests had, on their
part, a taste for her good dinners. James
Boswell described "the witty and the eminent who assembled in numerous
companies". Guests included the likes of:
- Dr.
Oliver Goldsmith,
- James
Boswell,
- Arthur Murphy 1727-18 June 1805 lawyer, dramatist and
Henry Thrale’s oldest and dearest friend
- Sir
Joshua Reynolds painter and President of Royal Academy of Art 1723-1792,
- Joseph
Crutchley 1745 - 28 December 1805 Henry Thrale’s illegitimate son,
- William Seward 1747-1799 anecdotist and son of a wealthy brewer of the
firm Calvert and Seward,
- John Cator died 21 February 1806 timber merchant of London and Beckenham,
- Bennet Langton a scholar of Greek and close friend of Samuel Johnson 1737-1801,
- Topham Beauclerc 2nd husband of Lady Diana Spencer and close
friend of Samuel Johnson 1739-1831,
- Sir
John Hawkins 1719-1789,
- Edmund
Burke 1729-1797,
- Dr.
Thomas Percy editor of Tatler, Guardian and Spectator,
- Bishop of Dromore 1729-1811,
- Dr. Christopher Nugent father-in law of Edmund Burke died 1775,
- Sir Robert Chambers professor of law at Oxford and Judge 1737-1803,
- Samuel
Dyer 1725-1772 writer and translator,
- James Woodhouse a shoemaker 1735-1820,
- Mr.
Giuseppe Marc’ Antonio Baretti 1719 - 5 May 1789 Queeney’s
Italian tutor,
- Dr.
Charles Burney 1726-1814 musician, writer and Queeney’s
music tutor,
- Frances
(Fanny) Burney 1752-1840 (author of Evelina),
- David Garrick actor 1717-1779,
- William Henry Lyttelton Westcote later 1st Baron Lyttleton of Frankley 1724-1808,
- Baronet William Weller Pepys 1740-1825 created a Baronet in 1801,
- James Harris of Salisbury 1709-1780 philospoher grammarian and author of
Hermes,
- Sir Philip Jennings Clerke died 1788 MP for Totnes,
- Baronet Sir Richard Jebb 1729-1787,
- James Wallace Solicitor and Attorney-General,
- Mrs
Elizabeth Montagu 1720-1800 ’Blue Stocking’ authoress and society hostess.
FAQ last updated: 23 November 2001.
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- How much was Henry Thrale's brewery - The Anchor - sold for?
Almost certainly £135,000. A higher figure of £150,000 is believed to originate from Hester Thrale’s writings in Thraliana.
The lower figure appears in a letter by Samuel Johnson to Bennet Langton dated
16 June 1781, in which he says "You will, perhaps, be glad to hear, that Mrs.
Thrale is disencumbered from her brewhouse; and that it seemed to the purchaser
so far from an evil, that he was content to give for it an hundred and thirty-five
thousand pounds. Is the nation ruined?". As Johnson was one of Henry Thrale’s
executors, his figure of £135,000, is more likely to be accurate.
I am uncertain
if this included sale of just the Anchor Brewery or included other establishments
owned by Henry Thrale including The
Castle. Allowing for inflation £135,000 equates to around £13,500,000 or $22,500,000
today.
FAQ last updated: 15 May 2002.
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- What is Thraliana?
Thraliana
was written by Hester Lynch Thrale
between 1776 and 1809. It is a collection of her thoughts, experiences and some
of her verses from this period of her life. It was important because it was almost,
if not quite, the first English Ana.
FAQ last updated: 27 February 2002
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- Are you related to Henry and Hester Thrale?
Yes. I am Henry
Thrale’s second cousin, seven times removed. View relationship>>
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003
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Genealogy
- Who is the earliest known Thrale?
The earliest record of any Thrale is thought to be William le Thral and Johanne Thrale in the Bedfordshire Subsidy of 1309.
Source: Historic Sandridge.
FAQ last updated: 2 January 2001.
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- How far back can the Thrale family tree be traced?
The furthest back that anyone is known to have traced unbroken ancestors is Robert Thrale who died in 1538 in Sandridgebury, Hertfordshire. Robert is said to be buried "the medle Aley" of St. Leonard's Church in Sandridge.
Robert Thrale's descendants - which include me - are available here.
Source: Historic Sandridge.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003.
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- Where is the earliest known Thrale grave?
Robert Thrale who died in 1538 in Sandridgebury, Hertfordshire, was according to his will, buried in the "the medle Aley" of Sandridge Church. It is likely that many ancient Thrale graves were removed during the 1888 clearance of St. Leonards Church graveyard.,
Source: Historic Sandridge.
Historic Sandridge Revisited. Edited by Janet R Rose. 1999. ISBN 0-9537647-0-2.
St. Leonard's Publishing Sandridge.
The earliest known grave of which any trace remains is in the graveyard outside St. Leonard's Church in Sandridge village lies is the tomb of Susanah Thrale who died on 15th. November 1751 Aged 23.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003.
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- Who was the first Thrale to emigrate to America?
William Thrale, born Sandridge village 1605, died 3 August 1676 in Windsor, Connecticut, America.William Thrale sailed to the America on 20 March 1630 and landed on 30 May 1630, at a place in Boston that they called Dorchester.
Source: Ian Thrall's web page.
FAQ last updated: 4 June 2002.
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- Where is your family tree?
Before I started Thrale.com I had no idea about anyone in my family tree beyond my grandfather.
Through Thrale.com I have traced my ancestry back 16 generations to Robert Thrale (died 1538). Full details of my Thrale family are here.
FAQ last updated: 9 February 2002.
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- Can I upload my GEDCOM file to Thrale.com
Yes. Simply e-mail your GEDCOM file to me and I'll make it available to the world on Thrale.com.!
FAQ last updated: 11 January 2002.
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- Are any Thrales related to royalty?
So far I have discovered three English Kings to which have been related to a Thrale.
The closest is King Henry VII 1457-1509. King Henry was Hester Thrale’s 8th great grandfather.
King Henry III 12 October 1207 - 16 November 1272 was 16th great grandfather of Sophia Thrale's husband John Meredith Mostyn 1775-1807.
King Edward I 17 June 1239 - 7 July 1307 was 15th great grandfather of Sophia Thrale's husband John Meredith Mostyn 1775-1807.
Full details are in the Thrale family tree.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003.
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Queen Elizabeth I and the Broad Arrow
- What is the connection between the Thrale family and Queen Elizabeth I?
It is said that the Thrale family of Nomansland gave Princess Elizabeth shelter and refuge whilst in danger. This kindness was later rewarded when she became Queen Elizabeth I.
FAQ last updated: 14 July 2003.
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- What is the 'Broad Arrow'?
The pheon (a bearing representing the head of a Broad Arrow or javelin, with long barbs which are engrailed on the inner edge) was, like the modern mace, carried before royalty by a sergeant-at-arms. It was the cognisance of Henry, Viscount Sydney, Earl of Romney, master-general of the ordnance. (1693-1702). It became a royal mark, and was used in Great Britain to denote Crown Property, being termed the "Broad R,"or "Broad Arrow." One could suppose that the Broad Arrow is one of the oldest trademarks still in use for its original purpose. The Broad Arrow is said to have been given to the Thrale family by Queen Elizabeth I on coming to the Throne in 1558 (see above).
FAQ last updated: 2 January 2001.
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- Where is the Broad Arrow iron now?
It is owned by Richard Thrale of Sandridgebury
FAQ last updated: 14 July 2003.
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Miscellaneous Thrale questions
- Which Thrale's became Members of the British Parliament?
William Trayle was MP for the County in 1376 and 1381. Johannes Trayle was Chevalier Member of Parliament for Bedford Borough in 1541. Michael Thrayle appears as M.P. for the Borough of Bedford in 1541.
Ralph Thrale 1698-1758 was Member of Parliament for Southwark between 1741 and 1747. His son Henry Thrale 1730 - 1781 was also Member of Parliament for Southwark between 23 December 1765 and September 1780. He was re-elected after coming second in the in the 1768 and October 1774 general elections. Henry was a Tory - like all brewers - and was together with Samuel Johnson was a fervent supporter of Lord North. He was defeated in the 1780 election,
which included this election
address which was written by Dr. Samuel Johnson.
One of Ralph Thrale's other children was Susannah
Thrale. Susannah was married twice, both times to MPs!. Her first husband
was Thomas Scott MP for Bridport. Her second husband was Arnold Nesbitt MP (died 1779) for Cricklade.
Henry Thrale's illegitimate son, Jeremiah
(Joseph) Crutchley (1745 - 1801) sat as Member of Parliament for Horsham in Sussex. He also owned Sunningdale Park in Berkshire.
Queeney
Thrale (Henry's eldest child) husband Viscount George Keith of Elphinstone sat as Member of Parliament for Dunbarton from 1781 - 1790, and later was M.P. for Stirling until 1801.
It is said (by Hester
Thrale in Thraliana dated 1 March 1779) that Henry Thrale's sister Lady Mary Lade (1733-1802) bore an illegitimate child for Colonel Sir Philip Jennings Clerke M.P. (died 1788) after the death of her husband Sir John Lade.
This is not a definitive list, and there could well be further Thrale MPs. Please tell
if you know of any others.
Sources: Historic Sandridge.
Samuel Johnson by JCD Clark 1994 Page 199 for dates of Ralph Thrale's parliamentary
career.
Mrs Thrale of Streatham. CE Vulliamy. 1936.
Thraliana 1 March 1779. Hester Thrale.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003.
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- Which Thrale's married into British Nobility?
Queeney Thrale
married Viscount
George Keith of Elphinstone on 10 January 1808. She was his second wife. They
had one child, a daughter the Hon. Georgina Augusta Henrietta Keith.
Georgina was married twice. Firstly, to the Hon. Augustus John Villiers, son of
the Earl of Jersey, and secondly to Lord William Godolphin Osborne, brother of
the eighth Duke of Leeds.
Source: Tulliallan
Parish. By A.H.Millar FSA Scot 1895.
A cousin of Ralph Thrale of Offley (1664 - 1711) , Anne Halsey married Richard
Temple, Viscount Cobham.
Source: Historic Sandridge.
FAQ last updated: 24 November 2003.
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- Which Thrale's have their picture displayed in the National Portrait Gallery?
Hester Thrale 1741 - 1821.
Gabriel Piozzi (Hester Thrale's second Husband.
Please tell
me if you know any other Thrale portraits.
Source: National
Portrait Gallery. London.
FAQ last updated: 16 February 2004.
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